tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3372693484053299675.post7490523117244321612..comments2024-03-28T05:54:32.094-04:00Comments on Throne of Salt: Lord of the Rings Reread PostDanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00694362417308874455noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3372693484053299675.post-64972767165457647392022-10-04T09:35:57.725-04:002022-10-04T09:35:57.725-04:00This is a pretty minor quibble compared to some of...This is a pretty minor quibble compared to some of the more serious issues brought up here, but as a geologist, Tolkien's mapmaking has always annoyed me. Mountain ranges simply should not intersect each other at right angles._Goblinist_https://www.blogger.com/profile/07186161196551426319noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3372693484053299675.post-41704842759994351992021-06-06T03:47:00.013-04:002021-06-06T03:47:00.013-04:00I first read through LotR during college, as part ...I first read through LotR during college, as part of a Fantasy and Science Fiction class. Unfortunately, I had to blitz through all three parts of the novel in a single semester, and so didn't have the ability to slow down and really digest it. I ought to return to it, one of these days.<br /><br />On another note, while we rightfully give D&D a lot of crap for its portrayal of orcs, it's got nothing on how Warhammer treats them or Beastmen or Skaven. Like, I know as a wargame it benefits from having forces of unreasonable antagonists who necessitate battle (because you can't have a wargame without war). I'd just like to see a bit more moral nuance to these Always Chaotic Evil races. I was shocked when the recent book on vampires (the Soulblight Gravelords Battletome) actually described not all vampires as being, by necessity or nature, evil (though they often are due to their blood thirst, and because vampires are often selected for turning in the first place for whatever the "sire" values).Bluechohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02639489100112616694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3372693484053299675.post-58316477861427571532021-06-05T10:54:33.954-04:002021-06-05T10:54:33.954-04:00Your readthrough posts are always great! I’m a lit...Your readthrough posts are always great! I’m a little too into LotR so I appreciate hearing a more objective critique. There’s an interesting fanfic called “The Last Ringbearer” that completely reframes the whole story and deals with the fallout of the War of the Ring; basically, Mordor is a (human, “orc” is a derogatory term) society going through a scientific revolution, Gondor and Rohan are stagnant backwaters, and the Elves are racist monsters who want to keep humans as pets. The prose is kinda rough and I wasn’t always on board with the author’s ideals, but it’s still an interesting attempt to make Middle-Earth a little more “realistic”.willjevhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05840528568531455811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3372693484053299675.post-62236550562296039572021-06-05T00:47:54.628-04:002021-06-05T00:47:54.628-04:00These are very interesting observations, especiall...These are very interesting observations, especially the talk about mercy and emotions (too much modern media depicts violence and badassery as the end all be all). I’m also amused by the mention that Tolkien was good at tracking time, as a military historian also says as such (especially in how the time armies take reveals characteristics of the commanders): https://acoup.blog/2019/05/10/collections-the-siege-of-gondor/Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06037749460915638960noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3372693484053299675.post-27768608843495105222021-06-03T12:43:13.928-04:002021-06-03T12:43:13.928-04:00More random orc trivia, the orcs have a proper nam...More random orc trivia, the orcs have a proper name for themselves, the Uruk-Hai (Orc-Folk). But because Tolkien was a linguist, the name usage varies by affiliation. All orcs are Uruk-Hai but the larger black orcs that are taller (probably exceeding 5 foot) call themselves Uruk (orc) and so represent an attempt to culturally position themselves, or for Sauron to culturally position them over the larger population. Sauron clearly relied on them as his shock troops and "sergeant class", whipping the common orcs into the mustering ground. Uruk's are not recorded in the Similrilion, so it's possible that Sauron himself bred them into existence as an improvement, which would make their existence somewhat "blessed" by orcish standards. Saruman uses the word Uruk-Hai, or "the fighting Uruk-Hai" to refer to his breed of shock troopers, those are human-orc hybrids and display mostly human proportions and even cannot see in the dark properly. He's appropriated the language to instill into his loyal army, for he cannot trust common orcs not to turn to their master's (Morgoth) successor. The Isenguard hybrids need to be in a position of dominance otherwise they cannot be dominates over the Misty Mountains tribes that Saruman has recruited. This clearly works as they stood and fought to the last at Helms Deep, sure in their innate superiority or their micro-cultural belief that they represented "true orcs" unlike the rabble who fled.<br />Since Saruman was producing Orc-men as well as the Men-orcs, we can presume that the hybrids of Isenguard we being split by phenotype, further isolating the people and making them dependent on Saruman, the immortal founding-father to define what their identities were.Morgan Longhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09317608230683016769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3372693484053299675.post-84744007371916326672021-06-01T12:29:08.839-04:002021-06-01T12:29:08.839-04:00I admire your fortitude in reading film novelizati...I admire your fortitude in reading film novelizations. I usually prefer reading the book after watching the movie or TV show (I find there's less yelling-at-the-television that way). But I thought this was an interesting read on the differences between Peter Jackson's completely original movies and the film novelizations by this guy, er, "Tolkien."<br />https://mythcreants.com/blog/ten-changes-made-in-the-lord-of-the-rings-novelization/The Malumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12971459955701026406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3372693484053299675.post-82403971766702042982021-06-01T10:59:02.462-04:002021-06-01T10:59:02.462-04:00"...for all the copying that Tolkien has gott..."...for all the copying that Tolkien has gotten over the years, very, very few people have actually figured out, or even bothered to recognize, the emotional and moral core of the series." This is almost exactly what I got out of my own re-read of LoTR a year ago. I'm glad someone else agrees.<br /><br />RE: the films, a thing that jumped out to me in my re-watch is that I feel like they did a much better job of motivating Gollum and a much worse job of handling Faramir and Sam. Gollum's resolution to help the hobbits being genuine until his betrayal at the waterfall really works, I think, but having Sam's suspicion *not* motivated by actually overhearing Gollum's arguments with himself makes him seem more like a jealous jerk (even if he winds up being correct). Faramir taking them to Osgilliath is a weird horrible choice that undercuts both his story and the hobbits'.wazbarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06559452405856000251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3372693484053299675.post-39960627897812193532021-05-31T21:25:10.460-04:002021-05-31T21:25:10.460-04:00I saw this very recently while reading comments fo...I saw this very recently while reading comments for a Tor re-read! I think it's a neat little development to them.Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00694362417308874455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3372693484053299675.post-36294121271096720532021-05-31T13:25:12.820-04:002021-05-31T13:25:12.820-04:00There is a very interesting discussion in LotR-ner...There is a very interesting discussion in LotR-nerdom about the ages of the two orcs in Cirith Ungol, with their constant references to the good old days before Big Bosses (nothing links Warhammer and Tolkien more than the very British, lower-class cadence of the orcs), the orcs could be talking about time periods between 60 years ago (when Sauron began the current wave of attacks that cumulate in the books) or 3000 years ago (that bit from the opening of the movie).<br />Though since Tolkien clarifies orcs as living less (excluding vagueness about titles, reusing names and demonic souls incarnate in orc flesh) than even Aragon and his Atlantean hill-tribe, I think it's more likely the former.Morgan Longhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09317608230683016769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3372693484053299675.post-56483491725455827522021-05-30T17:51:30.506-04:002021-05-30T17:51:30.506-04:00Makes sense. I think his short stories are better...Makes sense. I think his short stories are better then the doorstoppers, simply because they have to have a beginning, middle, and end on a scale that can be swallowed. I love love love The Emperor's Soul for that reason.M-and-Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17254693753623240219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3372693484053299675.post-68330407471506317812021-05-30T16:50:48.055-04:002021-05-30T16:50:48.055-04:00I find his work emblematic of a style of storytell...I find his work emblematic of a style of storytelling that doesn't have any room for blank spaces, hanging threads, or human messiness. It's a very pretty puzzle box but nothing else exists.<br /><br />I respect him for always doing something new and very much his own, and he's a competent writer as far as under the hood goes, but his worlds are, to use a food metaphor, stale white bread, and not even good white bread.Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00694362417308874455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3372693484053299675.post-44174545187699432442021-05-30T16:11:30.008-04:002021-05-30T16:11:30.008-04:00What's wrong with Brandon Sanderson? Other th...What's wrong with Brandon Sanderson? Other then the length of his books, I mean.<br /><br />Also, if you want some more fantasy as metaphor that isn't pulling from Tolkien by way of D&D, check out the Craft Sequence by Max GladstoneM-and-Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17254693753623240219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3372693484053299675.post-25764331024274171742021-05-30T11:21:20.200-04:002021-05-30T11:21:20.200-04:00I actually did that a while ago!
https://throneof...I actually did that a while ago!<br /><br />https://throneofsalt.blogspot.com/2019/08/dredge-are-coolest-orcs.htmlDanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00694362417308874455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3372693484053299675.post-89347180416970411092021-05-30T01:18:28.204-04:002021-05-30T01:18:28.204-04:00Really excellent insights, probably due for a rere...Really excellent insights, probably due for a reread myself tbh. Though what’s got me more hooked is the potential deep-dive Banner Saga post. I remember your Banner Saga race-as-class post from a while back, but a worldbuilding and thematic look from your perspective would be very interesting, I think. KimokaheSmithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14640878214863621121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3372693484053299675.post-85660480723385552232021-05-29T19:27:31.722-04:002021-05-29T19:27:31.722-04:00Reading this has me wanting to revisit the books a...Reading this has me wanting to revisit the books again... for the first time since I read them as a 12yr old. <br />I knew I liked them despite what has since been made in their name, the D&D-ising of their elements... and your post reminds me of why.Timmy Crabcakeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14737954661234574830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3372693484053299675.post-87324516710247265442021-05-29T17:32:12.721-04:002021-05-29T17:32:12.721-04:00That was definitely the feeling I got on the read ...That was definitely the feeling I got on the read through - the actual meaningful themes of the work run counter to the less palatable parts, and the latter can be removed without damage to the former, which is something that can't be said of a lot of older fantasy, which tends to fall apart in total transformation if you remove the racismDanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00694362417308874455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3372693484053299675.post-73336339301101038062021-05-29T17:06:36.525-04:002021-05-29T17:06:36.525-04:00WRT Tolkien's racism, I always view him as som...WRT Tolkien's racism, I always view him as someone who tried his best, but was considerably misguided and didn't examine the biases of his upbringing. Like if you talked to him about it he'd say "shit you're probably right" and change his beliefs. He seems like he admired other races but in a way that engenders microaggression and stereotypes rather than true understanding. IDK I just kinda want to think the best of him.Pilgrim Processionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04246889904411128383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3372693484053299675.post-91573102819151045392021-05-29T14:12:07.047-04:002021-05-29T14:12:07.047-04:00What a good time.What a good time.Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00694362417308874455noreply@blogger.com